Dining across the divide: ‘I kept telling him he was far more leftwing than he thought he was’
Andrew, 55, Cheltenham
Occupation Business owner
Voting record A political atheist, he does not vote. Leaned Conservative in the past
Amuse bouche Is extremely keen on the documentaries of John Pilger, particularly his film on Iraq, The War You Don’t See
Steph, 36, Cheltenham
Occupation Travel journalist
Voting record Would like to vote Labour, but has only once lived in a constituency where they had a chance, so typically votes Lib Dem
Amuse bouche Once went rafting with ex-Farc guerrilla fighters
For starters
Andrew She’s very nice, very genuine. Well-mannered. Intelligent.
Steph I was expecting someone quite rightwing. And he was not like that in any way, shape or form. I kept telling him that he was far more leftwing than he thought he was. But honestly, I still don’t know what his political leanings are.
Andrew I had steak.
Steph I had a prawn and crayfish cocktail, followed by moules marinière and then a cheeseboard.
The big beef
Steph Andrew kept telling me that he thought people needed to be allowed to have a debate. It took a very long time to get him to admit he was talking about trans people; he kept saying “woke culture”. This has been overblown by the media and weaponised to sow division. All trans people want is to be safe, have access to medical treatment and not be on the end of the violence this has stirred up. Otherwise, the issue is irrelevant to most people’s lives.
Andrew She was saying: “They just want to be left alone.” But I find it’s mainly trans women in the media pushing forward the agendas. You rarely see a trans man complaining. The changing language, pronouns – I’m not against that, I just feel it’s going to take a long time to change people. Staff saying, “Good morning, ladies and gentlemen,” on the train, and being disciplined for excluding non-binary people – that’s going over the top.
Steph I pointed out that change has to start somewhere, and he said we should be allowed to debate these things. I couldn’t get him to spell out what he thought was up for debate.
Andrew I agree that it’s mainly people on the right who use “woke” to describe any argument that’s trying to be progressive. But Steph expects too much of society; the older generation needs to understand what it’s like to be different, whether it’s the trans issue or race.
Sharing plate
Andrew We both think education is the key. That was our common ground, even if we disagreed on where we were.
Related:Dining across the divide: ‘Brexit hasn’t been as bad as I feared’
Steph We discussed private schools and agreed they’d produced terrible Etonian prime ministers. He really disliked Boris Johnson. We discussed the fact that the networks, the sense of entitlement, all the privileges that private schools bestow on you, are not warranted. But he’s sending his child to private school in September.
Andrew The school we’re sending him to is elite in terms of money, but the ethos is about developing the child. The facilities they have, the little quiet places, the mental health help – all these things that children need more in the modern world. Smaller class sizes, better facilities, guest speakers to inspire them. It may be because of the Conservative government or it may just be the way they’re set up, but state schools don’t seem to be trying like that.
For afters
Steph He voted Brexit because he thought we would have a greater degree of sovereignty, mainly over trade deals. I said we were more successful as part of a trading bloc. I understand his point, that being in the EU has an impact on the amount of control you have, but we had such a jammy position. We weren’t part of the euro, we had significant privileges – I felt like it was a bit of an own goal.
Andrew The conglomeration of massive companies is what’s ruining the world, why would we want to do that with countries? I still think Brexit could work. I don’t think any party has had the will to do it. I wouldn’t say it’s been catastrophic, but it has been bad – I expected a lot more and I have been very disappointed.
Takeaways
Steph Both of us felt we could be honest, and our opinions would be respected.
Andrew We really enjoyed the conversation, it was incredibly amicable. We had a little hug at the end.
Additional reporting: Kitty Drake
• Andrew and Steph ate at Gallimores Kitchen in Cheltenham.
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